Was it arson? Maybe. Would French authorities admit the fact if it were? Possibly not. Is there any group in France responsible for the spate of fires and vandalism at churches? At least one has been the work of a Muslim migrant, and Islam does have a 1,400-year history of destroying churches in Europe and elsewhere.
Does that mean that it is Muslims who are attacking churches in France, and who destroyed Notre Dame? Of course not. It’s a possibility that should be investigated, as should other possibilities. To dismiss this possibility out of hand as “Islamophobic” is to be terminally naive and/or ideologically blinkered.
“Notre-Dame: ‘The work had not started yet, only the scaffolding was being assembled,'” translated from “Notre-Dame: ‘Les travaux n’avaient pas encore débuté, seuls les échafaudages étaient en cours de montage,'” Fdesouche.com, April 16, 2019 (thanks to Maxime Lépante):
The frame, the roof and the spire of the cathedral are destroyed. It will now be necessary to evaluate the state of the structure. The fire came on Monday as major renovations were underway.
(…) “The hotspots are the main obsession in a restoration work of this magnitude,” says the chief architect of historical monuments, François Chatillon, about Notre Dame. A simple weld on lead can heat the wood below. The chief architect of historical monuments responsible for the restoration of the spire of Notre Dame, Philippe Villeneuve, states: “the work had not started yet, only the scaffolding was being assembled.” From his point of view, “the hot spot hypothesis is therefore not the right one”.
“Notre-Dame de Paris: ‘Nothing points in the direction of an intentional act’ at the beginning of the investigation,” translated from “Notre-Dame de Paris: ‘Rien ne va dans le sens d’un acte volontaire’, selon les débuts de l’enquête,” Le Journal du Dimanche, April 16, 2019 (thanks to Maxime Lépante):
The safety procedures on the Notre-Dame de Paris construction site “have been respected,” said one of the leaders of the scaffolding of the cathedral on BFMTV Tuesday, the day after the fire that ravaged the building. “All I can tell you right now is that at the start of the fire, absolutely none of the employees of my company was present on site,” said Julien Le Bras, adding that all employees of his company, Europe Echafaudage, participated in the inquiry “without any reservation”.
An observer on the scene in France, Maxime Lépante, who sent these two links, also writes:
One of my friends sent me an email concerning the security on the roof of Notre-Dame. She has a diploma in Art History and studied in the “Ecole du Louvre” (“Louvre School”, where students learn art history and restoration processes): “I visited the framing of Notre Dame with architects of the “Bâtiments de France” (“Buildings of France”, the highest rank for an architect in France), some years ago. This 13th century timber frame was extremely protected. Each intervention is always accompanied by historians, architects, experts; no work is envisaged without extreme caution; no source of heat, no torch, no electrical apparatus is allowed; a high-performance alarm system is in place; and very strict supervision of all people allowed there. I think we will eventually learn that this was arson.
Terry Gain says
If the work hadn’t begun and no employees were on sight, what other explanation is there but arson?
Terry Gain says
Or on site.
martha tucci says
Terri Gane, cut people sum slack.
gravenimage says
Terry Gain was correcting her own minor typo, not giving another poster a hard time.
mortimer says
https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2019/04/16/drive-bys-dont-dare-speculate-arson-in-symbolic-notre-dame-fire/
Even though a report from France’s own central criminal intelligence service noted that from 2016 to 2018 there have been thousands of cases of church vandalism, thousands of cases of church — not synagogue, not mosque — church vandalism. Thousands of cases from 2016 to 2018, two years. It peaked in 2017, 1,045 cases of church vandalism in France.
And according to the French ministry of the interior, when cemeteries and other sites are taken into consideration, the number of acts of church vandalism rose to 1,063 in 2018. But we’re supposed to ignore that. That’s not relevant. Anybody that wants to look at that is a crazed conspiracy theorist.
gravenimage says
Synagogues are under security and police protection in France. Attacks there are definitely a danger.
christianblood says
Satanic, hypocritical, morally corrupt, degenerate, anti-Christ and pro-Islamist West are pretending as if they care about Christianity by shedding crocodile tears for the burning of the “notre dam” secular building and yet these EVIL, pro-Islamist degenerate animals not only ignore the tens of thousands of Christians being murdered by their Islamist allies annually but they also arm, train, support and finance the very Islamic terrorists they are carrying those jihadist mass-murders!
May the God of justice swiftly punish the West for their satanic hypocrisy! May they be judged without mercy for the blood of Christians they have directly shed or the constant support they give to their murderous Islamist allies!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHSav7TbYBM
gravenimage says
This is more of christianblood demanding that Muslims conquer the West.
I didn’t think even he would be low enough to gloat over the destruction of a Christian Cathedral just like his Muslim allies–but I was sadly mistaken.
Rufolino says
On Fox News two days ago:
A correspondent in France who dared to mention the shocking rise in attacks on Churches all over France, was instantly cut off by the Fox network.
The interview (with Shepherd) was immediately shut down.
So much for freedom of opinion on Fox.
smoris says
Shhhh! You’re not supposed to know about that! You’re not supposed to talk about it.
del says
Electrical fires can start without people present. Linseed oil can also cause “spontaneous combustion”.
But if the work hadn’t yet started…
warren nicodemus says
christianblood , Well said .
Ade Fegan says
With wikileaks out of the way … Secrets are safe
CRUSADER says
Repentance is required.
+++
mortimer says
This is, in my opinion, an inside job by one of the Muslim workers and a jihadist co-conspirator. The worker may have been approached by a member of a terror group or may have been a self-directed lone avenger.
Many Muslims have a very deep, blind prejudice and smouldering hatred towards the dirty kafirs.
The Koran and hadiths are filled with hateful denunciations of kafirs and their wrong-worship (KUFR).
What better way to destroy the cult of the Virgin (denounced in the Koran) than in destroy her most visible shrine in the entire world.
The police will be watching to see if any of the Muslim workers have left town or are trying to leave France.
Spiro says
Was there Muslim workers hired to do this work
Putting up scaffolding?
Nicola Timmerman says
I’ll bet the companies were pressured to have a diverse group of workers.
NO PAPERS says
They have people with NO PAPERS-a guy wrote on twitter about it-a guy from Mali attacked him from behind because he dont wanted to be”A slave”-means he dont wanted to work…
gravenimage says
There actually is Islamic slavery in Mali.
mortimer says
A supposedly European worker may be a secret Muslim or recent convert. We have seen many such jihadists recently.
mummymovie says
INCENDIARY BALLOON(S)?
Almost had to have been one of these incendiary balloons, ever so popular with jihadi scum in attack after attack against Israel these days.
They’ve worked so successfully there; Why would they not use them for jihad attacks in the West?
This seems like kind of a no-brainer.
Or am I missing something?
mummymovie says
Or an improvised, incendiary drone was the tool, perhaps.?.
Jihadis have been working on this stuff for a long time.
Ashley says
OMG mummymovie…I was looking into the exact same thing!
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-fire-museum/brazil-mourns-blaze-at-national-museum-seeks-answers-to-tragedy-foretold-idUSKCN1LJ00L
Ade Fegan says
police will be turning a blind eye
government and media will be feeding us shit
sheliak says
Macron understands that a finding of arson will bring down his government and he will employ the full powers of the French deep state to repudiate this conclusion. More importantly, what actions would the indigenous French population undertake if arson was indicated? Would this be interpreted as an act of war against French identity, culture,history, nationhood and soul? The event that triggers the inevitable ethnic and religious civil war modern France is destined to experience?
John Kendall says
“More importantly, what actions would the indigenous French population undertake if arson was indicated?”
Exactly. They, not unlike US, have lost the will to protect their French People, their culture, their posterity. This is Muslim’s 4th (732, 1529, 1683) attempt in conquering Europe. Europeans ought to b ashamed of themselves by allowing Muslims in. We r no better, after 911 we continuing bringing in Muslims resulting in more Americans getting killed by Muslims. The WEST has lost its willingness to protect what our ancestors gave us through sweat & blood. Heck! It’s 2019 & we still can’t protect our border as illegals r crossing it.
the truth will come out says
it may take time but someone will leak the truth eventually,
owensgate says
EU (and UK) politicians already ignore or dismiss without thorough (or with) investigation of common “gang rape” and other crimes and misdemeanors, and “hate” crimes (whatever those are), that might implicate the “religion” of islam or its followers. They have no political choice in the matter. Charles Martel is rolling over in his grave; his victory was for naught. On the other hand, the common proletariat has no idea of the extremes the “Political Powers” wield to achieve and retain that power. I would not say at this point that even the French Government is not on the table for this. But the prime suspect is islam. Every musselman in the World has wet dreams of destroying Notre Dame. Had they not wanted this so badly, they might have avoided being first in the “lineup” of perps. If I had a button in front of me that would launch a missile to take out the ka’bah, the temptation to push it would be irresistible.
Michael Copeland says
“Muslims in the West must have an attitude of enmity and hatred of the kaffirs.
All of kuffaar are the enemies of the Muslims.”
islamqa.com
Cece says
The word ‘love’ is not mentioned in the Qu’ran once; not in any context.
Rufolino says
The French Government does NOT WANT TO KNOW about the possibilities of arson. Politically, it had to be accident.
The topic of blame is quite as incendiary as the fire itself -because a Moslem MIGHT have been involved.
Don’t expect an open investigation ! The truth is not on the Government’s agenda, over an issue as fraught with tensions as this one.
Brings to mind the Reichstag Fire in 1933, and it’s issues. But this time, NO BLAME must be assigned by anyone.
mummymovie says
+1
Spot on.
medforth says
Tunisian Muslim Mohamed J. intends to “destroy” Cologne Cathedral+++
The Tunisian Muslim Mohamed J., who had stabbed an acquaintance in a dispute, is currently facing trial before the Cologne Regional Court. In the course of the judicial questioning he said on Monday that he wanted to “destroy” the Cologne cathedral. This statement is nothing unusual, because churches in the Islamic world are always the target of attacks. Also in Europe, where Islam is spreading more and more. In France, for example, two churches were desecrated every day last year, because from an Islamic point of view they are symbols of the hated “unbelievers”. This year it continues abruptly: In the first half of February at least ten churches were attacked. Not all attacks, damages, devastations and desecrations are carried out by Muslims, since there is also profane robbery. Left-wing extremists who are hostile to Christians also have a motive. But Islam has a clear image of the enemy, which often triggers those attacks.The statement of the Tunisian Muslim, who also bears the name of his Islamic “prophet”, who established dozens of anti-Christian orders in the Koran, occurred on the same day as the blaze at Notre Dame.
Read more:
https://searchlight-germany.blogspot.com/2019/04/tunisian-muslim-mohamed-j-intends-to.html
mortimer says
One of the workers or engineers or contractors will be able to figure out how the arson was done. There were a lot of intelligent people there with technical knowledge who could figure this out. Someone probably knows how it was done, but they may not be able to reveal it.
Guy Forester says
Well mort, if technical experts that have examined the cathedral before and after and could identify an other than accidental cause, they had better make sure their life insurance is paid up and good for any cause of sudden and unexpected demise. Just my opinion, but sometimes people that could tell us something end up unable to.
MTMLA says
Don’t drive through a tunnel!!!
Simo Hayha says
Think Seth Rich, who WAS scheduled to testify before a Congressional committee about behind-the-scenes at the Democrat National HQ the following week. Shot in the back. Four times. The “official” report decided it was an attempted robbery gone wrong. On a busy thoroughfare in the middle of the day, in WASHINGTON, DC!
saf says
with cameras everywhere…. where are the videos
gravenimage says
The idea that the French state is murdering anyone who points to Jihad is calumny. When has this happened?
There are, no doubt, a lot of dhimmis among French authorities–but accusing them of murder is something else. Links?
nicu says
Muslims celebrating the fire ! many videos were deleted on youtube already : proof must be destroyed !
Sun says
If it was arson, Macron will not release the results under any circumstances.
Lu says
It will leak out eventually – this is too big to cover up.
But we all are jumping the gun.
Don Ameche says
???? What ‘gun’ is that ????
I Don’t understand.
gravenimage says
“Jumping the gun” is a saying–it means jumping to action or conclusions before it is time:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jump%20the%20gun
Spiro. says
Oh come on nobody would do that to a church really
Especially pease loveing Muslims
This will be covered up if it’s arson and some other group blamed or natural causes
PC culture will not allow truth
David Stephenson says
Well, then that leaves spontaneous combustion or arson. Take your pick. Arson is the only logical conclusion, as we all knew from the beginning. The scaffolding served as the place for the arsonist to gain access.
Ashley says
https://www.thedailybeast.com/lou-dobbs-political-decision-to-rule-out-arson-in-notre-dame-cathedral-fire
somehistory says
Experienced fire inspectors have found the sources of fires in buildings completely destroyed, down to the dirt or concrete foundation. An experienced investigator, if allowed to do his job and then tell the truth…imo…would say this was the result of an arsonist. Most likely a “young male” as most arson is committed by this group of society. And in thiss case, a “young male moslim.”
Investigators look for the source of the fire…where it began and the evidence of the cause of the spark. Investigators have found **matches** after arson fires…which is incredible when one thinks about the matches being the starter and made of wood.. They look for accelerants and multiple locations for these. If found, it lends credence to a charge of arson.
The very fact that the prosecutor came out while the fire was still burning to say it was “not arson” and there was “no terrorist motive” is suspicious in itself. He doesn’t want it to be arson. He doesn’t want it to be and so it is not likely to be revealed even if investigators find a lot of evidence of arson. He wants it labeled an “accident.”
But, the truth always is “revealed”…nothing remains hidden forever. (Jesus Christ said that.)
mortimer says
I think the well-informed crew and fire investigators already know in their guts what happened.
The work crew was EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS and will fight tooth and nail any accusation of negligence. It had to have been sabotage. Everyone knew about the danger of ‘The Forest’ of beams in the attic.
paul 316 says
are there no security cameras, no security guards, with such a vast amount of artifacts that should be protected, I don’t get it.
mortimer says
LOU DOBBS said in so many words ‘NOT SO FAST WITH THE CONCLUSION THAT THERE WAS NO ARSON.”
Quote: “This is context, this is not speculation, this is the situation right now in France and the recent history of what has happened to Catholic churches throughout the nation,” Dobbs declared. “Ignored too often by some covering the tragedy, some who have ruled out speculation about the cause of the Notre Dame fire as they speculate—taking it as gospel that, well, arson was not the cause.”
He added: “That was a decision made within hours. It sounds like a different kind of decision. Perhaps a political decision, rather than one based on careful investigation of the facts. That would amount to speculation, wouldn’t it?”
Interestingly, Dobbs’ questioning the cause of the fire, and suggesting French officials are purposely dismissing the possibility it was maliciously set, comes on the heels of two Fox News anchors cutting off interviews with guests for pushing conspiracy theories on the air.
CNN Leftards pick and choose what CONSPIRACIES THEORIES fit their GLOBALIST AGENDA.
Ashley says
Just a thought. It may not have been a construction worker.
Initial reports stated that the cathedral had been evacuated when the fire broke out. Who were these evacuees? If the cathedral was closed to the public I would have to guess employees.
I find it highly suspect that the cathedral didn’t have an overnight security staff…that strikes me as incomprehensible.
somehistory says
Supposedly, a security person checked when the first alarm sounded and found nothing ;and then found the fire on the second alarm.
And, there was a ‘mass” being held at the time. They had to evacuate when the fire was discovered.
Ashley says
There were thirty employees in the cathedral when the fire alarm sounded!
https://ktla.com/2019/04/17/construction-workers-security-staff-questioned-as-investigation-into-notre-dame-fire-ramps-up/
Terry Gain says
Ashley
The article to which you linked says they were there before the fire. I assume they had left before the fire started, as other articles have stated
……..
” Thirty employees working at the Paris landmark before the fire broke out were interviewed by Paris prosecutors on Tuesday, the Paris prosecutor’s office said. Those were due to continue on Wednesday”.
somehistory says
Thanks for the link. There certainly are conflicting accounts.
From the link you posted:
“Of the four companies contracted to carry out renovations at Notre Dame, only two companies, scaffolding firm Europe Echafaudage and art conservationists Socra, had work in progress there at the time of the fire. Neither company had workers on site when the fire broke out, CNN has been told.”
I find this very interesting.
Ashley says
Thanks, Terry. I came here to correct my comment but you beat me to it.
Yes…thirty employees BEFORE the fire.
Green Infidel says
Might the “thirty employees” have not been on the scaffolding, but maybe security, guides etc?
gravenimage says
The cathedral had been open for tourists, and had just closed when the fire broke out.
Heidi says
Since people are spending lots of money to rebuild Notre Dame a left-leaning journalist asked where are the monies to rebuild cultural artefacts in Iran and Afghanistan that were destroyed during the war are. The comments of the readers, except a few, were accordingly. Here is the link in case you do read German https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/panorama/id_85600324/brand-in-notre-dame-sind-die-milliarden-spenden-gerechtfertigt-oder-nicht-.html
Terry Gain says
Please ask that Leftist cretin how many Mosques were deliberately destroyed? is the number greater than 0?
CogitoErgoSum says
I would expect that most of the money to rebuild Notre Dame would come from Catholics and other Christians. I would expect most money to rebuild Buddhist shrines would come from Buddhists, Hindu shrines from Hindus. If Muslims are wondering where the money is to rebuild any of their demolished sites (destroyed in their own wars), I would say it is most likely sitting in the pockets or bank accounts of some rich oil producing Muslim countries. Maybe they can sell some more oil?
Heather says
He must be referring to the ones that the muslim Isis destroyed in Mosul or somewhere in Iraq, I think. I remember watching it on tv. I think the thugs taped it, they were so proud.
gravenimage says
If the Bamiyan Buddhas were rebuilt, pious Muslims would just blow them up again. Buddhists in Afghanistan were driven out, forcibly converted to Islam, or murdered centuries ago.
CRUSADER says
But, there is no compulsion in the religion of Submission.
gravenimage says
Grimly hilarious.
Tom says
Let’s hope that this is not arson by Islamists or left wing fanatics.
If it turns out to be arson this could be the straw that breaks the proverbial camel’s back and ignites (no pun intended) a civil war in Europe.
Terry Gain says
Tom
My hope is that if it is arson carried out by Muslims – in keeping with the commands of their “religion” – as seems to me likely, that the French authorities don’t try to cover it up. A civil war would not be as bad as submission.
Lydia Church says
Submission (in this case) is not in our vocabulary!
CRUSADER says
Have you read the book ?
“SUBMISSION”
Novel by Michel Houellebecq
The novel imagines a situation in which a Muslim party upholding Islamist and patriarchal values is able to win the 2022 presidential election in France with the support of the Socialist Party. The book drew an unusual amount of attention because, by a macabre coincidence, it was released on the day of the Charlie Hebdo shooting.
The novel mixes fiction with real people: Le Pen, François Hollande, François Bayrou, Manuel Valls, and Jean-François Copé, among others, fleetingly appear as characters in the book.
gravenimage says
Yes–a very troubling book.
Ashley says
Agree, Terry.
I fear the French authorities are already executing the cover-up. No sane official utters the word “accident” while a building is engulfed in flames by origin unknown.
A fire marshal here in MA told us once…”You always have to assume arson and then walk that theory down.”
somehistory says
I agree. When the spokesperson for the fire department is answering questions, it is generally the rule that they say “under investigation, don’t want to speculate”…something on that order and say when the investigation is complete, an announcement will be forthcoming.
Sometimes…”no comment at this time” is all the press gets.
But to say right off “accident”…just says so much more.
Rufolino says
“You always have to assume arson first”.
The French Government refuses to consider arson. It would be socially explosive IF a Moslem had been involved.
But Moslems have been involved in countless recent attacks on churches all over France !
To state this fact is not “conspiracy theory”. It is investigatory logic.
Terry Gain says
Ashley says
Apr 17, 2019 at 2:16 pm
Thanks, Terry. I came here to correct my comment but you beat me to it.
Yes…thirty employees BEFORE the fire.
——————-
You are welcome Ashley. And good for you. We all make mistakes and sometimes don’t get the opportunity to correct them. I always try to thank people who have kindly pointed out a mistake.
Rarely says
From the bits and pieces of info that have emerged it is hard to see this as “accidental”.
However, it would be totally irresponsible for the authorities to jump to conclusions other than “accidental” without actual evidence especially since a conclusion of arson by unknown persons would lead to the knee jerk assumption that it was by muslims.
Because of the potentially inflammatory reaction to such a finding that this would bring the authorities must be very careful.
Ashley says
My knee jerk reaction is that it is arson because as the cathedral was engulfed authorities were already trotting out the word “accident.” I consider that a jump to conclusions.
Otherwise, I agree. It could have been committed by a pyromaniac. A disgruntled employee. A terminated employee. A crazy person.
I would imagine the cathedral had standard fire insurance and yet funds are pouring in from around the world.
Insurance companies will payout for “accidental” fires but generally frown down upon deliberate acts of terror.
But I sure the hell don’t know much about France let alone French insurance policies!
CRUSADER says
Holy Week.
It’s gotta be arson….
This was an act of jihad….
Terry Gain says
Rarely
It’s irresponsible to suggest it is accidental when they don’t know.
thebigW says
“However, it would be totally irresponsible for the authorities to jump to conclusions other than “accidental” without actual evidence”
No one’s askin’ anyone to jump to any conclusion; we’re askin’ them to STOP jumping to the conclusion that it AIN’T a Muzzy terror attack and to stop demonizing us for speculating that it COULD be ……(expletives deleted)
warren nicodemus says
Unfortunately this is our future . Do you remembers when the vandals invaded Rome ?
https://www.livescience.com/46150-vandals.html
warren nicodemus says
https://www.google.com/search?q=candel+in+the+wind&oq=candel+in+the+wind+&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.10182j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Martin says
video – MAY 2018 — It seems it was quite easy to climb onto the roof of the cathedal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOW3ShO_DJQ
Martin says
video – OCTOBER 2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8A4lgtTC-g
Ashley says
Wow, Martin! Just wow!
Those videos were hard to watch as I have a deathly fear of heights! I can’t even walk up a step ladder!
So…it IS possible to scale the cathedral walls and reach (and sleep!) on the rooftop. TWICE!
I’m sure Notre Dame security and their insurance company would be most interested in viewing those videos!
Thanks so much for posting them!
Martin says
Notre Dame has no insurance policy
The French government is technically on the hook here
[…]The vaunted cathedral has no insurance, a spokesman for the French Consulate in New York City told MarketWatch.
France owns Notre Dame, just like it owns all religious buildings erected before 1905, he said.
[…]the French State “is charged with maintenance and renovation of those buildings, which it lends to the Church for free.”
[…]The French insurer AXA revealed Tuesday it underwrote policies for two of the contractors involved in ongoing renovation efforts when the fire started.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/notre-dame-has-no-insurance-policy-2019-04-16
somehistory says
Martin
One could only imagine the premiums if there had been insurance.
It’s interesting that the government owns the churches. And right after Macron spoke of rebuilding, several people said they would donate millions to do so.
If they don’t get enough to rebuild, will they raze it the rest of the way?
Ashley says
Thanks, Martin.
You certainly know your stuff.
Appreciate that you generously share it here with us.
Care to share your own personal views regarding this incident?
Martin says
@ Ashley …er…. In this day and age my personal views might be too extreme to share …
…. have a look instead at this High Resolution zoomable image of the aftermath
https://gigarama.ru/notredame/
Ashley says
Whoa…that is an extremely chilling image. I can’t believe any artifacts could have been salvaged.
Again, Martin. Thanks for sharing.
CRUSADER says
Do you think the cavalier attitude and the cocktail atop the cat burglar’s head helped his balancing act?
somehistory says
CRUSADER
I think it was his attitude. He seemed so sure of himself, as though unaware that he could slip.
There were news reports of two university students who fell to their deaths this week…both beautiful young women…one from a clock tower at her school and the other on a class trip to the Smoky Mts. Sometimes, young people don’t think it can happen to them. This time, for him, he succeeded.
August West says
At some point an actual insurance company (like Lloyds of London for example) will be asked to pay big bucks possibly in the Billions.
We will hear about exposure when insurance cos report quarterly numbers I am quite sure.
I would guess that investigation will be focused on finding out what actually happened… and they will leave no stone unturned (in order to avoid paying Billions)
lebel says
The culprits were Muslim, end of story. They were Muslim even before this happened and they will be Muslim no matter what the result of the investigation are because of the conspiracy theory (or cover up).
And RS will always be able to claim that he never said they were Muslim, he was simply “asking questions.”
Ashley says
Sincere question. lebel: why are you here?
You rarely contribute substance and yet I think you are capable of engaging in civil discourse. You aren’t rude or belligerent, but you are clearly hell-bent on condemning this forum. And that’s all. Surely you can do better.
I don’t always agree with Robert and his at-times sensational post headlines. And its not only okay to call foul, it is the responsible thing to do. And I like when you do so, because you do it with a hint of humor but recently with a vicious blow of disdain.
As of late I notice you attack. You call out the likes of Wellington and GI and grill them on the barbeque as you enjoy the meal while you never, ever, light the charcoal. I’m sure I’ll now be a target of your ridicule, but that’s okay.
It is just so damn easy to say “Jihad Watch Bad. Comments Are Bad. JW Cult. Jihad Watchers Follow Leader Robert Spencer.”
So again I ask: Why are here, lebel?
elee says
He challenges us daily to remember that every Muslim is a victim of Islam. I thank him for that.
eduardo odraude says
“Lou Dobbs: ‘Political Decision’ to Rule Out Arson in Notre Dame Fire”
https://news.yahoo.com/lou-dobbs-political-decision-rule-014043617.html
Here’s a little fact that lebel doesn’t want anyone to notice:
lebel says
Actually I provided similar statistics on jihadwatch a couple of days ago.
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/04/france-an-average-of-three-churches-are-attacked-every-day
You guys have such short memories, iike Goldfish, and thus so easy to manipulate by the Spencers and Dobbs of this world.
I wonder where the conspiracy will take you next?
gravenimage says
Why would lebel think that we would consider his sneering at attacks on churches in France a couple of weeks ago a good thing?
CRUSADER says
Never thought of us as being Goldfish.
I’ll take that as a compliment, unless anyone has an opinion on that — so I can change my mind….
Actually saw myself as more like Dory the forgetful fish:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UVrAso8N14
eduardo odraude says
Why is lebel here? He doesn’t mind, in fact he loves, the totalitarianism of Islam:
Bernard Lewis on Islam’s essential totalitarianism
Excerpt from the essay “Communism and Islam” in International Affairs, Vol. 30, No. 1 (Jan., 1954), pp. 1-12:
http://www.quotingislam.blogspot.com
lebel says
“As of late I notice you attack. You call out the likes of Wellington and GI and grill them on the barbeque as you enjoy the meal while you never, ever, light the charcoal. I’m sure I’ll now be a target of your ridicule, but that’s okay.”
Not sure if you noticed but both of these people are the ones who constantly attack me, I have simply chosen to (timidly) respond.
eduardo odraude says
Muhammad affirms that those who do not follow him will be slaughtered
On page 222 (326 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad:
https://archive.org/stream/TheLifeOfMohammedGuillaume/The_Life_Of_Mohammed_Guillaume#page/n133/mode/1up
eduardo odraude says
http://www.quotingislam.blogspot.com
gravenimage says
The idea that the appalling apologist for savagery lebel is “timid” is grimly hilarious.
And no–I don’t attack him–I just call attention to his vicious claptrap.
gravenimage says
lebel is here to whitewash Islam and sneer at the victims of Jihad, just as he has always been.
Whether or not this specific case was an act of Jihad–at this point I think likely not–will not change lebel’s purpose here.
Green Infidel says
Not sure where RS implied the culprits (if there were any) were Muslim? Far-leftists have also been expressing joy at this fire.
CRUSADER says
Union of Islamic Organisations of France (L’Union des Organisations Islamiques de France, UOIF)
somehistory says
paul 316
Reports say it was security guards who discovered the fire.
Dry Academy says
If this was arson by a Muslim,I’m very worried that the French government will try and cover it up. We know they are capable of such lies, because they covered up some of the atrocities committed at the Bataclan Theatre massacre. They told us it was just a mass shooting and conveniently left out the fact that the jihadis tortured some of the victims with knives and castrated some of them. The truth did come out eventually though- but the mainstream media didn’t report it that I could tell.
elee says
I’m appalled but not surprised.
elee says
Followup on Bataclan mutilations story: I just did a quick Google search and the closest thing I could find to a witness for this, was a speculation from a non-eyewitness British woman who sought cover in the cellar and speculated that mutilations of living people were occurring because of the particular timbre of the cries she was hearing. I’m not speculating on what I might find if I look further. Others can pursue this if they like.
gravenimage says
“Horrifying details of the Bataclan Theatre massacre revealed”
https://nypost.com/2016/07/15/horrifying-details-of-the-bataclan-theatre-massacre-revealed/
CRUSADER says
Grim!
James says
I think that it could be an accidental fire. For one thing there have been many fires and catastrophes in the past that happened before the Muslim invasion. The London subway fire was due to a string of accidental problems, such as lubricating oil dripping down from the escalators. And of course there do not have to be hotspots. A spark caused by metal striking metal can also start a fire. If it was in an elevator, some of the work of setting up scaffolding could have created some sort of channel for flames and heat to move from a spark in the wiring to the wooden beams. Medieval architecture often has wooden beams that can start fire. That is why the firestorms in Dresden and other cities were so devastating. There may have been exposed wiring or metal components, lubricants, etc. that were behind the walls of elevators that gradually built up a danger over years, as with the London subway fire. That could have led to a fire. It seems to me that a fire can be caused when oily rags are stored in a closet. If the door is opened, the rush of air triggers combustion. So it is possible that it was accidental. Coincidences can happen.
gravenimage says
Certainly this is quite possible. I hope there is a thorough investigation, in any case.
CRUSADER says
Wouldn’t the Cathedral — which is such a cultural icon, visited by millions annually, with a renovation budget of millions and a crew of intelligent craftspeople working on the renovation — be outfitted with fire retardants and water sprinkler systems?
Or are the French that stupid to have their heads in the clouds??
Ashley says
Careful there, Crusader. You might just be asking the uncomfortable questions and seeking the truth.
Remember…an “accident.”
Simo Hayha says
“Or are the French that stupid to have their heads in the clouds?? Sadly, THAT is not where the French “leaders” have their heads inserted…….
Crusades Were Right says
Of course it wasn’t Mohammedans! I mean, why destroy a perfectly good future mosque? (See Hagia Sophia for details.)
CRUSADER says
Hagia Eirene in the Ottoman palace ….
That’s still got its Churchy-ness to it, not made into a mosque, but into a concert chamber.
Maria says
What about this.? Is this someone connected with the fire in Notre Dame? Someone called Alan Silver says on facebook,
“The French are wondering who the figure is in the building that is on fire, it is not clear what goes on inside because the place was supposed to be empty.
Very intriguing’
https://www.facebook.com/alan.silver.372/videos/10156211495968225/
If genuine, this figure seems to be dressed in Muslim clothes (maybe) I don’t know what the voice is saying or whether this is taken at the precise time of the fire.
But definitely interesting.
elee says
This has apparently been demonstrated to be a misleading image……there was a longer video that this was excerpted from, in the longer video it is said to be clear that this man (woman?) was a fire fighter, in other parts of the video people in similar or identical attire are seen deploying fire hoses. Somebody committed outright fraud by excerpting and releasing this fuzzy footage and excising what appears before and after. Now, why the French choose to dress their firefighters like jihadis is beyond me……maybe it’s camouflage for safety in suppressing fires in the no go zones. If anything, maybe this footage refutes the allegation that fire fighters were slow to arrive.
gravenimage says
True, elee.
thebigW says
Here’s a pic of a French firefighter uniform. Does this look like the guy in that video clip?
https://previews.123rf.com/images/zorandim/zorandim1411/zorandim141100012/33279858-pompier-en-uniforme-isol%C3%A9-en-blanc.jpg
Martin says
it was a French firefighter — watch the second part of this video — starting just past the 0:31 mark :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zopTIxBlEk8
gravenimage says
That’s it.
Lisalles says
The EU states employ censorship of the media. There is very little possibility that the French government will ever allow the main stream media to broadcast that jihadis were responsible for this. But since this building was on the terrorists lists of places to destroy, it just seems to be common sense that they finally succeeded.
lebel says
The thing I can’t figure out is, why doesn’t the vast media conspiracy just come up with a bogus reason for the fire right away? They know Muslims did it and want to protect them in order to secure the invasion of the West by the Muslim hordes. The politicians and law enforcement are also in on it. How hard is it to have a fall guy? or some bullshit explanation?
gravenimage says
More witless sneering from lebel.
Is he pretending that all of those 34,000+ Jihad terror attacks were all “conspiracy theories”?
eduardo odraude says
Muhammad permits a threat of beheading to force a conversion to Islam
On page 547 (814 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad:
elee says
“You have in the Messenger of Allah an execellent exemplar, for him who hopes to meet with Allah and the Last Day, and who remembers Alllah much.” Koran 3:22
jayell says
Six factors:- 1. The work had not yet started, therefore there shouldn’t have been anything extra physically present to start a fire; 2. There were no workers on site at the time; 3. The fire started after the Cathedral had closed and the place should have been no-one in the building; 4.There were reports of the flames spreading unusually quickly; 5. Two churches per week in France are being desecrated, with arson is one of the means of destruction, and there has been a surge in this activity since the beginning of the year with one other historic church in the city being torched; 6. This fire in an iconic internationally-famous French Christian monument started mysteriously on the first day of Holy Week, suggesting that this is a deliberate attack not only on Notre Dame as a building but on the faith it represents. This suggests that it is a religiously-motivated attack. Now, what group might want to do that?
We know about the cheering and the sick comments from muslims in the social media, but has the public been informed of any claim of responsibility yet? Note my wording there!
Ashley says
Jayell…you forgot #7. The inferno was deemed an “accident” by the French authorities while the blaze was still at full throttle and some 400 firefighters were risking their lives to contain the fire.
Lavéritétriomphera says
The truth will come out sooner or later. I think our government will know exactly what really happened and that it is therefore, necessary to take the appropriate measures. Monday night Macron, like me, was struggling to hold his tears, and it was not bloody lie. Now we look ahead.
Rufolino says
Stand by for MANY MORE desecrations, yet to come, of Christian churches in France and Europe.
An increasingly popular trend, as an instrument of terror against the infidel, which will put the Notre Dame fire into perspective as a significant turning point.
The aim being the moral undermining of Christian Europe -already partly achieved.
When they are tired of desecrating churches, many jihadists will turn their attention to destroying outdoor works of art, such as statues of leaders and celebrated individuals, to demoralize Europeans who live amongst these often inspiring works of art.
The ruin of public works of art will make hearts sink, which is the intention.
It’s only a matter of time. What we are seeing now is only the start of a relentless process.
Lavéritétriomphera says
A good strategist does not disclose his strategy.
Or Else? says
As has been said many times…..centuries of wars…lit by candles/torches….no problem.
2019 safety standards….oops?
Not buying it.
gravenimage says
Hardly definitive, but it *is* notable that no Muslims–despite their gloating over this tragedy–have claimed they set the fire.
PATRICIA says
could be a lone wolf with no real ties just a wanna be
na says
I saw video act17apologestics and apostateprophet they almost quit from media due to attack of extremists. all Religions are a bunch of bullshit to deceive normal people. Astrological teachings(revelation) and morals are far better than teaching a religion. Now technologies are available to set fire and to increase temperature etc. Suppose if u see a UFO u tried to take photo. That may end up with collapse of your phone. We can not believe which is real and which is technology. Using technologies it is possible to hack voting machine. And using technologies scientist can pass image and sound from one place to other place without a receiver we can feel sound and video . Science and astrology both improved too much.
gravenimage says
How has astrology “improved too much”? Astrology has always been silly at best.
Tazda says
Interview of former architect of Notre Dame. Very interesting.
https://www.facebook.com/1078014574/posts/10216134910860347/
pistache says
Very interesting interviewwith the former architect of the site, on Tuesday (with english subtitles).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5QO5dP_NSk
[nb other link I sent earlier doesn’t work anymore, please delete post]
saf says
gee… ya certainly don’t hear of the same things happening to mosques… with all those Islamophobes running around being Islamophobic and all. Hey Paris… where are all the cameras????????????????
Every city in the world has Cameras especially around such a Cathedral….. where are the cameras?
Et si..... says
Bonjour
Juste pour information! Je vous laisse juger de la nocivité de cette blogueuse et ses activistes et opportunistes commentateurs dont Charles 05, analphabète, propagandiste arabe musulmane aux XXXLL pseudos, et plagiaire émérite.
Bonne lecture et bonnes fêtes de Pâque
Patoucha/Lucette H Bessis
Je fais votre travail M. Mabut! (Responsable des blogs)
Est-ce donc là votre conception de la « Liberté d’expression »!?
INCITATION VIOLENCE ET HAINE: UN POISON!
Crainte sécurité pour les Juifs : Etalage de la rumeur en toute impunité!!
Page d’accueil du site de la TdG.ch: Les derniers commentaires:
Attention les images sont intolérables.https://fr.sputniknews.com/societe/201904161040766035-mosquee-jerusalem-al-aqsa-notre-dame-paris-incendie/
Par sputnik dans Pâques, si belles pour autant de croyants et ensanglantées pour autant d’autres… dernier commentateur: Daniel 23h55 – dimanche 21 avril 2019:
Madame Richard-Favre,Oui, j’ai bien cru que mon commentaire était passé à la trappe, car au lieu de revenir à la page du sujet sous lequel je désirais commenter, j’étais renvoyé à la page du blog…
Par Daniel dans Salauds de riches et autres reflets des toits de Notre-Dame
Écrit par : Daniel 23h55 – dimanche 21 avril 2019 – son avant-dernier commentaire
Et l Incendie de la mosquée Al-Aksa à Jérusalem, à la même date et à la même heure que celui de N.D. de Paris, personne n en parle. Il y aurait des esprits malsains et des faussaires qui nous…
Par Charles 05 dans Pâques, si belles pour autant de croyants et ensanglantées pour autant d’autres… Écrit par : Charles 05 22h37 – dimanche 21 avril 2019
J’espère la même mobilisation de solidarité des musulmans pour les chrétiens après l’attentat du Sri-Lanka, que celle des chrétiens pour les musulmans après l’attentat de Christchurch.
Par archi-bald dans Pâques, si belles pour autant de croyants et ensanglantées pour autant d’autres… Écrit par : archi-bald 22h31 – dimanche 21 avril 2019
http://blog.tdg.ch/commentaires.html?&from=200
À l’attention de M. F. Julliard: Rédacteur en chef! (déjà envoyé hier à M. Mabut)
Votre attention svp car ce qui est écrit chez cette blogueuse est grave!
21h35 15 avril 2019 – NOTRE-DAME
“C’est cela, oui. Encore faudrait-il qu’il y ai une mosquée qui brule…”
https://fr.sputniknews.com/societe/201904161040766035-mosquee-jerusalem-al-aqsa-notre-dame-paris-incendie/
Écrit par : Daniel 19h47 – mardi 16 avril 2019 Répondre à ce commentaire
Merci, Daniel, vous m’avez devancée, à l’instant, j’allais publier cet article Sputniknews…
Écrit par : Hélène Richard-Favre 19h49 – mardi 16 avril 2019 Répondre à ce commentaire
http://voix.blog.tdg.ch/archive/2019/04/15/notre-dame.html
_____________________________________________________
11h28 21 avril 2019
Pâques, si belles pour autant de croyants et ensanglantées pour autant d’autres…
Et l Incendie de la mosquée Al-Aksa à Jérusalem, à la même date et à la même heure que celui de N.D. de Paris, personne n en parle. Il y aurait des esprits malsains et des faussaires qui nous disent peut être que ceux sont les musulmans , comme toujours , qui ont incendié leur Al Aqssa…Il n yaka
Charles 05 ( Plagiaire émérite. C’est une femme arabe-musulmane) Son clavier est exempt de signes)
Écrit par : Charles 05 22h37 – dimanche 21 avril 2019 Répondre à ce commentaire
http://voix.blog.tdg.ch/archive/2019/04/21/paques-si-belle-pour-autant-de-croyants-et-ensanglantee-pour-autant-d-autre.html
——————————————————————————————-
22h40 18 avril 2019 – Salauds de riches et autres reflets des toits de Notre-Dame
Répondre à ce commentaire
Pour information:
http://thesaker.is/list-of-monuments-damaged-by-conflict-in-the-middle-east-during-the-21st-century/
Qui a proposé quoi que ce soit pour la restauration de ces monuments? Salauds d’hypocrites d’ultra-riches! Monuments détruits par l’occident et l’état national-sioniste. Et il faudrait s’émouvoir d’un “accident” à Paris?
Écrit par : Daniel 00h13 – dimanche 21 avril 2019
Les coïncidences récentes, dont l’incendie de Notre-Dame et celle de la mosquée Al-Aksa à Jérusalem, à la même date et à la même heure, révèlent l’intrication de tous les événements du globe, à savoir que le Monde est un immense Organisme, dont chaque organe est interconnecté..
RK.
Écrit par : Richard Kohler 12h57 – samedi 20 avril 2019 Répondre à ce commentaire
http://voix.blog.tdg.ch/archive/2019/04/18/salauds-de-riches-et-autres-reflets-des-toits-de-notre-dame.html
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NOTRE-DAME (suite)
“des centaines de commentaires réjouis sur la chaine al-jazeera”.
Vous êtes désopilant mais vous ne devez pas le faire exprès. Vous regardez Al Jazeera alors? en arabe je présume. Votre commentaire rappelle les rumeurs sur des Arabes-Américains et Palestiniens se réjouissant à la suite des attentats 11 septembre. En réalité les images en question avaient été tournées en Cisjordanie 10 ans auparavant. Il ne me reste plus qu’à citer Matthieu: “Heureux les pauvres en esprit, car le royaume des cieux est à eux!” .
Écrit par : Daniel 20h12 – mardi 16 avril 2019
http://voix.blog.tdg.ch/archive/2019/04/15/notre-dame.html
Pour son négationnisme/antisémitisme : Johann est Daniel
http://leblogdekad.blog.tdg.ch/archive/2010/07/11/vol-77-l-avion-du-pentagone.html
Les liens de prédilection des liens de cette blogueuse et de ses commentateurs:
https://reseauinternational.net/facebook-chute-apres-quun-rapport-ait-affirme-que-50-de-ses-utilisateurs-etaient-faux-zero-hedge/
Du négationniste Thierry Meyssan, établi en Syrie!
Voltaire.net de Thierry Meyssan
https://www.egaliteetreconciliation.fr/Pierre-Hillard-supprime-de-Wikipedia-46825.html – Site Alain SOLAL
Patricia says
Of course right to the typical answer. A cigarette started the fire. They said it started inside the attic . the attic is closed and they were only working outside on the scaffolding so how did a cigarette even get inside a closed attic space. NOT a CIgarette unless someone was inside the attic. which they weren’t by what is said.. Look at the attic pictures it is closed. I would say anyone could have climbed the scaffolds and found a way in after the workers left.